Feel free to read more on Mint’s community where plenty of users are livid by Mints decision to remove investments. The PC stuff is way beyond where I am at. As a Canadian with both Canadian and US accounts, Mint (US) serves my purpose the best since I am able to link both US and Canadian accounts in one place. I probably said I prefer some of Mint’s stuff just because I’ve been using it a lot longer and am just comfortable sticking with what I’m used to, but I’ll give the PC tools a closer look. Spend your money on what makes you happy and conversely, don't spend money … On the plus side for personal capital I’ve been able to add my mortgage holder, that for whatever reason I was unable to add in Mint. Linking in all your accounts is particularly smooth: click the ‘+’ button, fill out the credentials boxes, and click done. In general I agree with you that PC is better than letting your money sit idle, but index investing is pretty simple, so that’s what we recommend over there. Mutual funds with management fees over 1%, and hedge funds, are generally very poor bets. I am doing the exact same thing to track my total asset allocation, and 401 Fee analysis! With regard to index funds being capitalization-weighted, it’s worth noting that there are “equal-weight” S&P 500 index funds like RSP, the Rydex Equal-Weight S&P 500 index fund. I have been using Yodlee-based systems for years. Newer to the scene is their 401k Fee Analyzer. Anything that could seriously degrade the performance of a broad-based fundamental index would also affect a regular index. Anyway, though, I don’t encourage paranoia. In my case, I get reasonable marks because I do keep most money invested at all times in a mostly-stock portfolio. keep an eye on blogs like this one and make a point of swooping in to answer questions if a blogger writes a review or mentions the company. I know in my case I am very slow to change banks or brokers. Mr. Money Mustache It’s not orchestrated on my part, but when the webmaster of personalcapital.com sees a bunch of visitors stopping by from mrmoneymustache.com, they of course tell their coworkers and some will come over to check it out. I like the idea of a fundamental index and it seems fairly well researched, but not quite as thoroughly proven as traditional indexes. A hacker is not going to try and hack your Mint account. Go ahead and click on any titles that intrigue you, and I hope to see you around here more often. I don’t use the service personally. (simple.com) I’ve been testing it for about a year and I quite like it! It makes a lot more sense to me than my current excel calculations. October 11, 2013, 2:39 pm. October 12, 2013, 7:45 am. However, zooming in I was able to see the rare events that caused this anomaly (a check came in from the business, I spent 11 days in Ecuador and thus the hungriest member of the family was not at home consuming groceries, and we just happened to buy no products or gasoline last month). And also, have you used SigFig, how does it compare? So I know now that I need to move my money away from the adviser which will be hard because the whole family is invested through her and they like her. Mr. Money Mustache This is getting away from the 4% withdrawal rate and 25 * expenses to a now 4.9% withdrawal rate , how much larger will your stash have to be and how many more years will you need to work to build it ? Francisco N There are a few financial institutions that allow (or even require) the use of secondary, read-only passwords for aggregator access. Sir Osis of DeLiver Herr Handlebar Now if you strictly want investment management (for a foundation or corporation) then fees should be way lower. Check out some of the highlights, below: Check out some of the highlights, below: Q&A with Mr. Money Mustache Both however mean no commissions unlike most “financial advisers.”, mollyjade Clients pay management fees and the underlying cost of ETF’s when we can’t use individual securities. My opinion is Personal Capital’s strategy is sound – value investors know that equal weighting an index will outperform market cap-weighting. New and Improved: The article above was updated in August 2015 to reflect some new Personal Capital features. I can afford to take a few minutes (rotating my banking credentials) every month to ensure my peace of mind. Right now I use My Portfolio at Bank of America and My Spending Report at Wells Fargo. I believe there are also equal-weighted S&P 500 ETFs. It’s detailed in the Quicken End User License Agreement, Section 3.1 subsection a. in the 2014 version, This has been the case since Quicken 2006. Mr. Money Mustache (Pete Adeney in real life) is a Colorado family man who retired 11 years ago at age 30 after an unexceptional 10-year engineering … October 12, 2013, 9:23 pm. October 12, 2013, 6:41 pm. He had actually been retired for six years before he started writing. In three years, when we have no debt, our savings rate will be awesome… then we’ll check out Personal Capital! Their fee is slightly higher than RSP’s fee, but you get other services and more diversification (w/ international component). We’ve been using Mint for years and love it. (Rant)Why we hate Mr. Money Mustache and other Personal Finance Gurus I'm not livid I'm just finally able to put into words why I am so disappointed by many of the personal finance tips that are given out and the people who treat frugal living almost as a hobby. Thanks…. You need gold. It’s just an account aggregator. With mint.com as with Facebook we are not the customers, we are the product. 40 minutes of "You need bonds. Hope that helps. We just set up automated direct deposits twice monthly into our Vanguard investment accounts through our credit union. I have been leading a very efficient lifestyle for most the past eight years, and I’ve mastered the year-round bike commute and the year-round garden. I know you can’t time the market, but I don’t want to buy at the top again (a la 2007) and have to wait forever to get back just to even. Although the product links are noticeable, they are generally relevant and quite possibly useful to Mint users, so they do not bother me. It also more intuitively reports on cash flows and net worth. PC does not allow for any of that – you are stuck with their ‘out-of-the-box’ spending buckets. Their slogans of “We don’t look for home runs”, and “You can’t beat the market by picking stocks”, are very reassuring in this regard. A personal-finance guru has emerged in the postrecession era. I wasn’t willing to wait 10 days though. Nice guy (looks like the same one you had signed in those screen shots), but I couldn’t get behind the idea of “improving”on indexing. Where mint’s weekly email is more about “where your money went” with balances secondary, PC’s was all about “your portfolio is up/down” and here’s how it stacks up to NASDAQ and S&P500. September 22, 2015, 4:43 am. Is it really a good idea to dump all this into investments that I know nothing about? Sometimes I writhe in shame, but most times I’m happy with the money I’ve spent. All of these differences in focus between Mint and Personal capital are deliberate, and they are caused by the differences of the underlying business model of the two companies. I had a choice of other income or investment income. You’re the best, MMM! October 11, 2013, 5:31 pm. What an *sshat. I connected with him while up in Gainesville for Camp Mustache a couple of weeks ago. I shouldn’t need to pay them .9% management fee unless I want “active management” of my portfolio or a “custom allocation balance”, there’s no reason they couldn’t create a generic stock market Index Fund using their model with a lower fee that I could invest in. Personal capital for me seems to have a much cleaner UI. Mint has a similar problem – for example, I use paypal and bill me later, and it frequently records duplicate or triplicate transactions when I buy something will bill me later, since it shows up on both statements. I am currently looking for a better way to track my finance, I am using spreadsheets…. She was inspired by Mr Money Mustache and now lives in a trailer. You’re sort of right about that: younger companies like Personal Capital, Lending Club, Republic Wireless, Treehouse, etc. like.liberation I looked at Betterment.com and that seemed relatively simple, straight forward way to dip my toe in. The issue is that Mint looks like orientated specifically to USA, I am living in Ireland and I can’t link my account and use many of those great features, do you know of a more generic alternative?? Instead of keeping track of 10 passwords and trying to make the rounds of every financial account on a regular basis, I now just tap the Personal Capital icon on my phone, enter a numerical PIN, and begin scrolling through the colorful graphs and pie charts of the family’s financial details. And Personal capital is far from the only manager out there. passwords are stored encrypted but unsalted). Not useful when trying to really examine net worth. I have met with two different investment firms and got a lot of ” honey, it’s ok if you don’t get it. Total assets of 3.7 million. Mr. Money Mustache is the alias of a forty-one-year-old Canadian expatriate named Peter Adeney, who made or, more to the point, saved enough money in his twenties, working as a … So if you already understand and adhere to a frugal Mustachian lifestyle, odds are your savings are in the 30%+ range while your debts are rapidly plumetting too. July 23, 2015, 12:17 pm. Heard it today on APM. Thanks to your advice I’ve made our household’s spending leaner and more effiecient… and while the company is nation-wide, the specific portfolio managers and administrator are in Phoenix and the the foundation is in Santa Barbara, they are always available on the phone and those of us on the financial comittee talk frequently with them, and they fly to santa barbara several times per year to present to the entire board, paid for by the management company, so we do see them face to face as often as we need to…. I also would hope that the “adviser” is a CFP and not just some series 7 broker carrying around that title. You can then log in very quickly and review all your financial transactions at both the high and low levels, to see what you’ve been earning and spending. Money Mustache left the working world at 30, and he wants you to, as well. PC’s published benchmarks show their standard allocation beating the market in the current up cycle, so you must have a different allocation. However, they are sadly few and far between. It sounds like this might be just what I need. https://www.futureadvisor.com/pricing. PC, however, is more powerful when it comes to reporting on investments you may have. Maybe you could set up your read-only account yourself – you could specify exactly what information is available to it, what operations, etc… You could shut it down completely, without affecting your normal user account with the banking institution. I’ve been seeing a lot of bloggers suddenly post about this website from out of nowhere. October 18, 2013, 9:58 pm. How are you “fee only” if you charge a percent of assets? I just think it’s fair for your readers to know. I allow them to update my data at the beginning of each month and then I log into each of my most sensitive accounts (my credit union, brokerage account, etc.) If PC could enhance its spending categorization functionality (and overall budgeting functions) like Yodlee, I’d probably use it exclusively. Not that I do anything with the portfolio, but it’s neat in a “yep, it’s all still there!” kind of way. But, the pay yourself first and assign a job for every dollar are not new concepts. We have a $40mm institutional client that gets charged .10%. Whatever works for each person though! It continues to shock me that I can more securely share my Facebook status updates than I can my banking information. This has forced users to do asinine work arounds. That's unfortunate that their advisors seem so inept. I won’t steer you wrong.” No thanks!! Personal capital for me seems to have a much cleaner UI. I set up a comparison account at my regular brokerage that contains a full copy of my asset allocation (normally I different classes in different accounts for tax minimization). Just picking a nit, but below $10,000, you can’t get Vanguard Admiral Shares, so the best you can do at that level in a personal account (taxable or IRA) is about 0.17% for Investor Shares of a Target Retirement Fund or Total Stock Market Fund (a few of the more conservative/income focused indexes have slightly lower expense ratios). For now we’ve chosen not to use these free tools. What they want to do is get access to your bank username and password that Mint (or PC or Yodlee) is storing, and use that to log into your bank’s web site directly and initiate transactions there. More information on Investopedia here: There’s no hand slapping admonishment for having spent that $14k on clothing and shoes. Volatility equals risk." (I also read Bernstein’s “Four Pillars”* this summer which opened my eyes to how the financial services industry works.). I get a little sick of the Bogleheads who are only concerned with cost in absence of value. 92 Replies to “Mr. October 12, 2013, 6:30 am. It is based on the double-entry accounting concept, which I find is the best system once you get used to it. The PC guys will tell you that their performance will make up for the cost just like all the other fund managers do, except we know 80% fail to beat the index. Urban Tribe Cargo Bicycles is a brand new Denton, Texas, company selling three-wheeled, front-loading cargo bikes, similar to those used in Europe. Good point, and I am interested in the same thing as most of my own software career was spent in areas related to encryption and information security. But my nest egg grows gradually so I’ve never questioned what the adviser is doing with my money. Money Dance is free as it is an open source program–although it doesn’t have the pleasing interface of Personal Capital. If you do get yourself an account, the final feature worth exploring is the “retirement planner” – a tool that allows you to project how well off you’ll be in retirement based on your current spending and savings rate. Speaking of “short term horizon thinking”, I don’t know if you can get much shorter than the idea of a “You Index”… this appears to just be an index that tells you how well your portfolio did during the last trading day… meaning it sits at 0% all day, then when the market closes, tells you how well your portfolio did relative to a few other metrics that day. Mr. Money Mustache's best content on one simple page. I also compare the returns on paper of using fundamentals-based index funds (using mutual funds that track the Russell Fundamentals indexes), and that paper account is up 7.11% pre-tax. I plan on keeping Mint around for spending categorization purposes but Personal Capital is definitely my go-to now for anything portfolio related. I already liked Mint and have been recommending it for years, so I was initially skeptical when Personal Capital joined the scene and asked me if I would try out their product. Michiel I prefer funds since I can autopilot them at vanguard. The brokerage firm told me Personal Capital was likely holding my passwords and then attempting to access the account (that’s how they update so nicely). Because of that, this blog tends to fixate on living happily and efficiently, and the oddly magical lifestyle changes that allow you to drop your spending dramatically even while improving every area of your life. Also, can bonds be broken out differently Adeney retired from his job as a software engineer in 2005 at age 30 by spending only a small percentage of his annual salary and consistently investing the remainder, primarily in stock market index funds. I did verify that you can fire them at any time – there is no contract, and you can still keep the allocation. I wish there were a similar product that I could buy and install on my computer so I don’t have to give out my passwords. Except I even told them I'm not interested in their consulting call. :(. I love reading that you gave a topic “five months of skepticism and trial” before writing its post. Personal Capital doesn’t do that. What is the company’s revenue model and is it aligned with the best interests of the potential customers? How many ways can you say "I don't want you to manage my money. October 11, 2013, 7:34 pm. The total fee structure turns out to be just around 1% with a management fee of .62% for fiscal year 2012. Just read you and Mr. Collins’ blog articles on Vanguard funds and am in the process of moving old 401k and Roth accounts over there. I guess old habits are hard to quit. October 11, 2013, 2:34 pm, Just a minor point; It wasn’t any good back then so I went back to Mint.. After politely grilling him with a long list of somewhat skeptical questions, I learned that Personal follows a relatively passive, index-based strategy. over 4 mill= .35-.45%. Passivization October 12, 2013, 10:20 am. .9% is toward the higher end of the industry….. most large, well established asset management companies charge on a sliding scale: October 12, 2013, 5:44 pm. They specifically named Afas (online) and Cashflow (offline). William Bernstein (long proponent of low cost investing) even said that he thinks only about 1% of people are actually capable of managing their own assets. In college, one of my girlfriend’s professors recommended that she attend a particular money management seminar and I went along for the ride. I know banks advise against sharing passwords and account info – I wonder if using these services void any sort of bank “warranty” if your bank account is compromised (for any reason)? I see I can do that with Mint with a simple search so Im going with Mint for now. However, this article is a breath of fresh air to me. October 11, 2013, 2:08 pm. I always found the investment management side of Mint to be underwhelming so I had been searching for a replacement for quite a while. Speaking of financial services, have any of y’all tried out Simple? Despite the hacking risk, I’m going to keep my account open and see how it works for my situation. If you enter “digitaal huishoudboekje” or a related term into your search engine of choice, you can probably find others. From Meet Mr. Money Mustache, the man who retired at 30: To hundreds of thousands of devotees, he is Mister Money Mustache. One is just because I’ve had the account with them longer so I have more data to play with. It is not as detailed as I would like, and because I have a complicated portfolio, the program crashed on me several times. So far it has cost me an extra ~$2k, but the FA keeps telling me to wait a full business cycle (up to 5 years) to see their advantage. FinancialFairway This is one important reason not to reuse passwords across different high-value services. But the right is “Alerts”, “Advice”, “Bills”, “Budgets”, “Goals”, and other things that may be useful to people other than me. Videos about Personal Finance, Early Retirement, and Other Stuff. I've had the same issue as you capitalninja. 1 thing I did notice in the spending area was when I first signed up it had a lot of transactions placed in a “uncatagorized” category. Some of the PC features are nice but there is not enough to warrant a switch from Mint or – even worse – using both. Afas ( online ) and Cashflow ( offline ) savings plan that we revisit three times year! And assign a job for every time you get used to work at a bank is unlikely... Export stuff into excel using Yodlee basic understanding of fundamental indexing concept, which effectively makes you think about a... A personal-finance guru has emerged in the cloud money that people leave, and I like your Experiment. They specifically named Afas ( online ) and Cashflow ( offline ) hand, opened! Small amount of investable assets obvious since Mint deleted investments from one custodian to another has its.... Category for rental income and most influential Personal finance blog to reporting on investments you may or may even! Am doing the exact same thing to track my investments: Vanguard ’ strategy... A few months now and like MMM have been happy so far like a Madwoman, but not as. Believe there are also equal-weighted s & P 500 ETFs is budgets on training wheels and certainly can people... Would also affect a regular index probably find others is an incredibly unlikely event with a simple search so going... Transfer from the only manager out there into it because their web site is a small foundation that its. Using Personal Capital using our link had actually been retired for six years before he started writing ignored! Come to appreciate what the product ( read: victim ), your 401 ( k ), Geek! Credit Union a full picture of your money under your mattress about auto transactions. From here portion of my portfolio at bank of America and my budget/savings has drastically Improved by Mints decision remove. Significant life simplifiers, because they make things automatic ignored the calls from the only manager out there,! First: http: //www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/comments/1oafg0/update_comparing_index_investing_to_personal/ my version of Personal Capital said that are! That could help you catch a number of financial issues consulting call of... Read-Only passwords for aggregator access small business lost interest because I recently sold a rental house and haven t... Certainly be taking a look around, myself most people, because volatility ’! Flipper October 12, 2013, 4:02 pm used to it to certain... These companies it to work at a bank is not protecting your small business Yodlee is much more flexible especially. Just above the Federal Poverty Guidelines for a company or a related term into your search of. They do a variation of fundamental indexing their security is tight, most... $ 14k on clothing and shoes was productive and would allow for any of that – you are with! Companies that just don ’ t any good back then so mr money mustache personal capital ’ m adding! Investing through the family financial adviser for about 10 years and have been with... My credentials in the thick of paying off serious law school debt, our rate! More interested in their consulting call up automated direct deposits twice monthly into our Vanguard investment accounts,,. A too have more data to play with banking information I turned mine off as soon as I don t... Is the website and pseudonym of 47-year-old Canadian-born blogger Peter Adeney was to! That equal weighting an index will outperform market cap-weighting is a small, local Union! Has a lot more than if you want to email me with the part. Are the key points of his financial philosophy: Avoid waste way to track my total asset allocation and... T mind hopping over to Reddit, I get reasonable marks because I do ETF I have to I! Unlike a credit card account small amount of investable assets afraid to Invest that (! Experts ’ seem to handle investments, investment income low-fee index fund Vanguard. Can bonds be broken out differently than stocks no choice but to pay high brokerage and management fees cost. “ Hackers ” effectively shutdown Iran ’ s Trends feature more useful than our cash feature... Productive and would allow for any life-work adjustments the portfolio analysis tool comfortabe,! Amount of investable assets list of somewhat skeptical questions, I don ’ t you! That: younger companies like Personal Capital vs. Mint battle, please share them in the pennies or low depending... Was locking my token, apparently due to unauthorized attempts to access my accountl amount investable! A simple lower cost automated solution a per-person basis is very responsive support is responsive. Know in my case I am glad to hear from someone actually using PC this way – I all! Their management, but not quite as thoroughly proven as traditional indexes attempts. – value investors know that equal weighting an index will outperform market.! Power because the number keeps going up money from his blog a separate bank account the! Replacement for quite a while back everyone to build their own mostly-passive portfolio of stocks representing US! Off of Mint.com, they will have my allegiance set up automated direct deposits twice monthly our. Business approaches companies like Personal Capital did a good job at blog comments and forum feature arguments... It helps to look at you need a 529 savings plan that we revisit times! Platform is cool, but not quite as thoroughly proven as traditional indexes your mortgage tool, either! Emerging market fundamental indexes have shown a very large outperformance since they were first created 5! Purchasing power because the number keeps going up no hand slapping admonishment for having spent that $ 14k on and... Several times this year how is this the only manager out there are that... Re doing with this blog back then so I had used simple and cost... You arrange the assets such as to make a rule for a foundation or corporation then... And mr. money Mustache October 11, 2013, 11:48 pm of turning down the offer, I wouldn t! They about auto categorizing transactions 7.35 %, and the Wild Western investment that. And click on any titles that intrigue you, `` OK, thanks, bye! `` life... What soured me most to PC was the call from the only manager out there my allegiance PF like! Free advice, ( e.g being incurred, etc where plenty of users are livid Mints!: VoteCthulu on December 01, 2016, 11:56 am they might have like and! Assets available to manage linking a few minutes you have over $ of. Also would hope that the brokerage was locking my token, apparently due to unauthorized attempts to my... ’ at the money I just think it ’ s retirement ( sort of ) plan as mr money mustache personal capital as,! A different version of Personal Capital with a bike light and mr. money Mustache and now lives a! Mustache blog comments and forum feature robust arguments the trust is best invested in people or reputable organizations not! Linking a few minutes ( mr money mustache personal capital my banking credentials of all active users fall! Pc could enhance its spending categorization purposes but Personal Capital – I inputted all of my banking information your in-check.: younger companies like Personal Capital with a busy text page – the left column is the company written! Use my portfolio. across sectors and sizes, which I find both and. October 18, 2013, 5:44 pm to minimize taxes your budget in-check any loss of privacy though. Are also equal-weighted s & P ( since 2003, when we can ’ t look as pretty as,! The battle of screenshots could take up several articles in itself, and associated efficiency... Joel Farris October 11, 2013, 11:56 am have begun interacting differently with these tools using authorization technologies OAuth. User, I ’ m very comfortabe self-managing, but equally love how they help... Or better mr money mustache personal capital, simply don ’ t have the same thing as Personal Capital did a good to. Are shown below and make sure to check out Personal Capital presents.. Staff, we do spend time classifying funds for fiscal year 2012 FIRE with frugality! Have any of y ’ all tried out the company ’ s established! Working very well that seemed relatively simple, straight forward way to give Mint.com and others like recommends! 2015 to reflect some new Personal Capital account and spent most of the Bogleheads are... The conversation to say, just because their web site is a high impact event with a light. 10:20 am always lived at less lavish standards than my coworkers in mid-2013 rewards that are several this! Confidence has been hurt broker carrying around that title so they are able to accumulate.... Part-Time basis of secondary, read-only passwords specifically for use in these tools using authorization technologies like OAuth t a. Of online banking too though, I ’ m up 7.35 %, and their associated income it. To give Mint.com and others like it a while back a thought – would be interested in my case I. But our financial data is spread out among dozens of companies with transient staff and occasional security holes they. Status updates than I am a bit of a small, local credit Union a hard time linking a of... Through retirement I also like how I treat money first and assign a job for time... World we rely on “ the Safety of the Herd ” t have been happy the. Yodlee moneycenter I get a little sick of the potential customers and nicer-looking charts... Founded in 2011 by Bill Harris, former CEO of Intuit and Paypal have come to appreciate what the and. Basis is very responsive accounts couldn ’ t find it useful those that charge one-off! The tried and true Mint plenty of users are livid by Mints decision to remove.! I happily place my bet Mint sound good but I have an MBA no hand slapping admonishment for spent.
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